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Talk:Hideki class
Photon torpedoes Greetings! StarTrek.com's article claims this ships is armed with "at least photon torpedoes", however, here it inlcudes only beam weapons in the ships arsenal. I can clearly recall the ship firing beam weapons, but I can never recall it firing torpedoes. Is StarTrek.com simply incorrect, or did the ship in fact fire a torpedo at some time? A side point might be; Do Cardassian ships even USE photon torpedoes? I can't think of an instance where they have fired anything that can conclusively be referred to as a torpedo. There was the purple weapon in TNG: Ensign Ro, but that look more pulse-like than torpedo-like to me. Rogue Vulcan 18:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC) :Star Trek.com's articles take a few liberties, I think. They have a lot of guesswork and supposition that is not supported by any canon evidence. I also do not recall them ever firing torpedoes.--31dot 18:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC) ::but StarTrek.com is a permitted resource, so it can be noted in the background. Cardassians have been known to use at least plasma (the orbital weapon platforms) and quantum torpedoes, and matter/antimatter warheads (the dreadnought) that is what a photon torpedo basicly is too (in a smaller scale) so it's not totally unimaginable that some of their ships might have photorp launchers. --Pseudohuman 18:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC) Hideki in VOY: Collective I was watching today on youTube, noticed that when the Delta Flyer was seen in the Borg shuttle bay, one of the alien vessels mentioned can be seen below it. Though the quality was low, the vessel appeared to be a Hideki class Cardassian vessel (or at least the CGI model of it). Can anyone with the DVD confirm? Thanks. --- Jaz 05:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :Approximately when was the scene? — Morder 06:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC) Maybe a third of the way into the episode. It's when Harry regains consciousness aboard the Delta Flyer. --- Jaz 06:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :While Harry is looking through the window or the scene where it zooms out? — Morder 06:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :Ah, found what you're talking about - it does have the same shape...but I couldn't tell you. — Morder 06:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC) ::Morder, can you upload a cap? --OuroborosCobra talk 06:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :File:Borg cube hanger bay.jpg was already going to :) — Morder 06:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC) ::Thanks Morder :-) ::Definitely been modified from the original, the wings don't swing back into points, for example. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :And big circular holes in the front. Though I can see why the initial thought. Not really sure it's a ship though I'd bet that it is. — Morder 06:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC) My guess is that they intended it to be an unknown alien, but figured it would be a short, dark shot, so they re-used the Hideki with some minor mods. Anyway, its speculative inconclusive, so I'm not going to make any page edits based on it. Thanks for you help team. --- Jaz 07:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC) Enough evidence of two shiptypes? If the Hideki-class is considered the Cardassian equivalent to the Starfleet Danube-class runabout, is it not more plausible they simply also used it as an auxiliary craft as well, and called them shuttles when in that role? is there enough evidence that the Cardassian shuttle which is a ship that looks identical and is capable of high warp as well, isn't the same ship. --Pseudohuman 23:32, May 11, 2011 (UTC) Sorry, i spoke before thuroughly reviewing the episodes, it is clear from "Tacking into the wind" that in comparison to a Jem'Hadar fighter the shuttle is only aroun 10-20 meters long and from "Sacrifice of Angels" that these ships are easily more than a 100 meters long. But, I hope this helps if someone else wonders about the same thing at some point. --Pseudohuman 23:46, May 11, 2011 (UTC) Apparently the articles were just merged. i'm not sure i agree with the merge, based on the visual evidence that one ship is ten times larger than the other... --Pseudohuman 13:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC) :The same argument could be made for the Klingon Bird-of-Prey seen in , or several birds-of-prey seen in TNG episodes, if were just going with scaling on screen. The use of the same model in the same season without alterations makes for a good argument that they were the same class. Sennim made just that point at below, and there was nothing to say that they were intended to be different, so, merged. - 13:49, August 3, 2011 (UTC) Cardassian shuttle Why are these considered different? - 23:43, May 11, 2011 (UTC) :That's a good question. Even this article says they look the same. --31dot 23:48, May 11, 2011 (UTC) ::I support a merge, I've often asked myself the same question...The fact that the same frame is used for different roles, doesn't necessarily means it's a different class of vessel altogether, despite the fact that the craft is identified as a "shuttle", which is a generic term, not a specific one as is also stated in the article (bginfo needs to be updated anyway, it's a Jim Martin design and a Tony Meininger build). I've just recently saw a documentary wherein a "Spitfire" was used as an unarmed reconnaissance plane, so it has real world parallels; We even have in-universe examples amongst others in the form of the which was used as science vessel, supply vessel and fighting vessel or the Federation attack fighter which was also used as trainer...Sennim 08:59, May 31, 2011 (UTC) :::On another talk page, it has been noted that there is a size difference between the two.–Cleanse ( talk | ) 09:41, May 31, 2011 (UTC) ::True, but as far as I can ascertain, this is only inferred, not stated, as Pseudohuman himself admits (the length of the Jem'Hadar fighter itself isn't even firmly established, ranging from 69 mtrs to 150 mtrs.)...The model itself has not been altered, neither physically or digitally, to support a size difference (as with for example the Kazon Raider)...As is discussed on numerous occasions, sometimes ad nauseum, on the Drexfiles, size differences for even clearly established ship types and classes are a constant bone of contention and mostly differences had a very down-to-earth rationale as Effects Supervisors of the day sized them in post-production according to their likings, especially in the CGI-age...Furthermore if we look at the talkpage of the Maquis raider it has until now been decided to disregard its fighter configuration and raider configuration and consider it as one class, though personally I think a much stronger case can made to have it considered as two different types...Sennim 10:48, May 31, 2011 (UTC) ::::support, I don't see any reason for them to be different. -- OvBacon(Talk) 22:07, June 10, 2011 (UTC) ''Starships Collection'' magazine info According to the issue on the Hideki-class in the magazine, the vessel was designed by Jim Martin, not Sternbach. http://www.startrek.com/article/official-starships-reveals-runabout-and-cardassian-hideki-craft -- DS9 Forever (talk) 21:05, May 14, 2015 (UTC) :The article doesn't give a source for the Sternbach info and since we have a source for the Jim Martin info I'm inclined to go with that. --| TrekFan Open a channel 21:10, May 14, 2015 (UTC) Shuttle? Does the shuttle from really belong here? Not only is it much smaller than all previous appearances of the Hideki, the model has a different tail section with shorter prongs and an added component in the middle. I think the production intent was to have it be different. -- UncertainError (talk) 04:20, February 21, 2019 (UTC) Lang's shuttle tractored in.jpg|Regular Hideki Cardassian shuttle, 2375.jpg|Smaller shuttle : Prove the production intent then you have answerd your own question. Until then, refer to the above discussions. --Alan (talk) 05:26, February 21, 2019 (UTC) The above discussions assume that the model is identical between the appearances. It is clearly not. I think the burden of proof is on the assertion that they are supposed to be the same. -- UncertainError (talk) 05:50, February 21, 2019 (UTC) :First of all, once upon a time these were two separate articles, but it became increasingly difficult to make a distinction between the two based on visual reference and nomenclature. The Hideki was the same model as the shuttle, the first shuttle was a physical model, the last was cgi. The two images you posted were both specifically called "shuttles", neither were specifically "Hideki" (as you have the one labeled). Those things we have the tolerance to ignore, for both appearance variations and scale, and that's without even getting into the multiple variations we've seen in the pre-refit Constitution class. --Alan (talk) 12:51, February 21, 2019 (UTC) ::A better example might be the radically different sizes of the Klingon Bird of Prey classes, as we have until very recently covered in universe the minor differences in the Constitution class, and there is still a very good argument for us to be doing that. There is nothing preventing us from saying this class appeared to have two different sizes. - (on an unsecure connection) 15:40, February 21, 2019 (UTC) The size discrepancy is less of an issue than the model difference. This is not a matter of physical model vs CGI; DS9 had a CGI Hideki that was accurate to the physical model (seen in "Sacrifice of Angels"). It was quite noticeably modified for this one episode. This speaks of production intent to separate them. -- UncertainError (talk) 23:09, February 21, 2019 (UTC) : No. It doesn't. --Alan (talk) 23:20, February 21, 2019 (UTC) File:Galor class, weapons array, mid-dorsal.jpg|look upper right, compared to J'H attack ship File:Luaran's attack ship.jpg|in the bay left of the J'H attack ship : But that's not to say there isn't a HUGE scaling difference between them, perhaps even moreso than the BoPs, which is real hard to ignore. --Alan (talk) 16:12, June 3, 2019 (UTC)